Definitive help for the spring - redmite

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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby Shonagh » 19 Mar 2011, 08:38

Thank you. WIll keep my fingers crossed we are in a bug free zone but stay ever vigilant.

Got a whole new supply of treatments delivered so lets put them to the test
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby wireworm » 19 Mar 2011, 10:55

I'll just muddy the waters further ref Neem oil.

It isn't actually legal to use this as a biocide anywhere in the EU.

It may well work. It may well be non-toxic to mammals and birds, but it isn't actually an approved biocide under the Biocidal Products Regulations (2010).

That may explain why it doesn't appear to be properly formulated for this job, nor appears to have proper instructions for this use.

Still, if it works for you....

I'll stick to stuff that is properly cleared for this use around my birds.

The Pesticide Pedant.
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby kated » 19 Mar 2011, 16:56

As a matter of interest, is vaseline, WD40 or Sudocrem legal to use on scaly leg?
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby wireworm » 19 Mar 2011, 18:27

If they are registered as veterinary products, yes.

....if not.......

All of these 'alternative' products may well work and I doubt if anyone will be prosecuted for using them, but don't complain if they don't work or cause your birds harm.
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby drfish » 22 Mar 2011, 13:40

dannyson wrote:Arrrgh!! #-o ... and there I was thinking you had used this stuff on red 'chicken' mite .. not just red spider mite which is clearly a totally different insect that lives on plants and NOT animal blood - jesus!! I'm very disappointed and wished you had mentioned this before hand...... ](*,) I almost sussed it when you talked about it being 'systemic'!! ... should have .. ](*,) I did wonder why 'tweedy' and other regulars had not made a comment.....

Anyway - I've got the stuff and will continue using it to see if it does work - and will add a few drops of washing up liquid - as it is a nightmare to keep 'oily'. .... still annoyed you recommended it on a chicken forum for pests but have not tried it beforehand on such.... :roll:


Are you taking the piss? I clearly stated right from the off that I used it on Red Spider Mite and not on Red Poultry Mites. So why don't you go back and read it correctly rather than being annoyed with me about it.

I offered an alternative to what you lot are spending vast amounts of money on and getting no where. If you didn't want to take the advice, then don't blame me for it. At the end of the day, you can choose to believe whether it works or whether it doesn't, but what I do see here a lot is people who are too naive to research into the bugs themselves and figure out how they work, how they reproduce, what environment they prefer and how to make it as uncomfortable for them as possible without harming your chooks.

Typical keyboard warrior, you read what you want to read and then when you realise it's not what you wanted to read, you retaliate and say it's someone else's fault that you've bought it.

Go back, read everything I put again, and then tell me I didn't make it clear enough that I had used this in my greenhouse, on Red SPIDER mites (which after researching, are a damn damn damn sight harder to kill than poultry mites). So, you read what you want, and when you finally realise that what I've said works, you'll understand why I put it.

And for the record, check the American poultry forums, lots use Neem oil to good effect there. But, I guess if the EU say no, then it must be bad. Funny though how you can still buy over the counter bug killers that contain carcinogenic compounds, despite it being much worse for everyone than Neem Oil will ever be.

Peace out!
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And a lot of Ibuprofen.
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby drfish » 22 Mar 2011, 13:45

DrFish wrote wrote:Not read the entire thread, but haven't seen it mentioned on the red-mite fact sheet, has anyone tried to use Neem Oil to control pests.

I use it frequently in my greenhouse over summer, and it kills everything dead, and that includes Red Spider Mites which as any horticulturist will tell you, are a nightmare to get rid of.

It's perfectly safe for mammals, birds, fish etc, but is a very very effective insecticide.

Just mix a tablespoon of pure neem oil to a litre of warm water, and spray liberally. It's not only a contact killer, it's systemic, so it will eventually kill off any that missed the initial spray.

Works for me, and it's a bargain at around £10 a litre from amazon.


That was my first post

And


DrFish Wrote: wrote:All mites will build up a tolerance to anything you throw at them. The best ways are usually to alternate treatments and try and work around the life cycle of the bugs. Not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs, but I do have a lot of knowledge of spider mites, and red mites are pretty much the same kind of pest, albeit not as hardy as a spider mite, so therefore, easier to eradicate.


So how exactly is that not clear? :scratch:
Giving power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to a teenage boy - P. J. O'Rourke (thanks Jessie)

It's amazing that people can believe everything is predestined but they still look both ways when crossing the road - Stephen Hawking

1 Wife, 3 children, 1 Staffie Bitch (RIP Marley), 1 Chi-Chi, 1 Tuxedo Cat, 1 part Maine Coon cat, male bearded dragon, Horsefield Tortoise, 2 White Silkies, 1 Frizzle Pekin, 1 CLB, 1 Appenzeller Spitzhauben Cockerel, 1 blue laced Wyandotte, 3 Appenzeller x Wynadotte pullets, 1 Call drake, 3 khaki Campbell ducks, 4 (2 male 2 female?) Aylesbury x Campbells, a breeding colony of Dubia cockroaches.

And a lot of Ibuprofen.
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby wireworm » 22 Mar 2011, 16:30

"And for the record, check the American poultry forums, lots use Neem oil to good effect there. But, I guess if the EU say no, then it must be bad. Funny though how you can still buy over the counter bug killers that contain carcinogenic compounds, despite it being much worse for everyone than Neem Oil will ever be."

No-one is saying that Neem Oil is bad - it's just not approved for use in the EU. Almost certainly this is because no-one wants to spend the millions of Euros it would take to get it registered in the EU when it is a product that cannot be patented or otherwise protected from anyone else selling it.

I would be interested to hear which are the 'over the counter bug killers that contain carcinogenic compounds' though. I suspect you are exaggerating just a tad.... If any contained carginogenic compounds they wouldn't be for sale - at least not legally.
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby dannyson » 22 Mar 2011, 18:49

Calm down :shock: ... blimey - what language .... [-X ........ :roll:

I would be interested to know what evidence you have of red poultry mites being easier to eradicate than red spider mite.

I can tell you that neither neem oil nor a plant bug killer kills red poultry mite on contact (from my exerience)... far from it :scratch: ... I've isolated a few and sprayed them with both and they were still wandering around a few hours later :-''' and products used as 'directed'.

The fact that red chicken mite feed on animal blood and not plant sap indicates to me that they are far more hardy and a different animal than intimated.

I'm no expert mind, which I'm happy to admit ..... and haven't got the time, facilities, ability or the inclination to spend hours doing scientific research - hence 'keyboard warriors' like myself come onto these forums to learn from others and share our experiences - (I've shared mine, explaining what I've used and the results) hoping someone has tried stuff which has worked for them

I admit to probably misreading and making assumptions - especially when you said you had a 'lot of knowledge of spider mites and red mites are pretty much the same' - I would suggest they probably have nothing much in common at all apart from being small and red ...... :-'''
Last edited by dannyson on 23 Mar 2011, 09:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby laffinfowl » 22 Mar 2011, 21:17

At the risk of being arrested or reported by my old friend Wireworm 8-[ i,ll just say one word on the whole subject "CREOSOTE" it has never failed me.
Been keeping chooks on and off for twenty one years and call me lucky but i have never (touch creosoted wood) had a Red Mite problem.
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby wireworm » 23 Mar 2011, 09:06

You're nicked sunshine.....!

8)
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby CP » 23 Mar 2011, 10:18

:lol:

It has to be said that although the age-old remedies might work, they're not licensed for that use, as wireworm points out all too often! (not having a go....it's nice to get advice & feedback from someone in the know. :grin: )

We use a belt & braces method, in that we don't use 1 product only. We do creosote the perch ends ( :oops: ) but liberal use of diatom, Indorex spray & Poultry Shield (only in the summer when it's quick to dry) seem to keep the little blighters at bay. Though we're always on the lookout for them! :angryfire:

They are extremely tenacious & what works for one might not for another. But you have to keep at it as their lifecycle is short & you have to keep blitzing the new arrivals.
They can also survive for a long long time without food so if you've left your housing to one side for a while, check it out for tiny grey insects crawling out of the woodwork! A friend gave up her chickens because of redmite & constant fox attacks, but a year later she moved the coops & sure enough......hundreds of them! :angryfire:
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby drfish » 23 Mar 2011, 14:35

All mites have the same basic structure, which is that they all breathe the same, breed in similar ways, have fast life cycles and can be controlled by understanding what makes them tick.

Although neem oil is a contact killer, it's not an instant killer as the neem works on suffocation by blocking the breathing ventricles. Any that survive that, will endure hormonal changes which confuse them into not eating and not breeding. This will work on ALL mites.

And the reason I see that red mites are surely easier to eradicate is purely down to the levels that people go to kill them. Do a google search for Red Mites, there's a few pages then it wanders off into randomness. Do the same for red spider mites, and there is literally thousands upon thousands of pages.

Now that to me would either suggest that people don't know about red mites, which lets face it, within 2 minutes of learning anything about chickens, people have heard about it, or the fact that they aren't any where near as hardy as Red Spider Mite (which are known to be resilient to EVERY possible insecticide that you throw at them due to excessive pesticide use by farmers).

Now the basis for the info I have supplied is that mites are all very similar in construction and most will react to the same things. Now, if you choose not to try this, then don't. But I will be sticking to my guns and using it with my coop once I get the chooks in the next few weeks, so I'll be able to personally report back on it's effectiveness.

As for carcinogenic insecticides, I give you Permethrin. It's a class C carcinogen on the EPA website, and that means:

Group C - Possible human carcinogen. This group is used for agents with limited evidence of carcinogenicity in animals in the absence of human data.

As usual though with our government, there's probably some fingers in pies which are preventing it being outlawed because it's only a light risk that can't be confirmed. Funny how a lot of manufacturers are revoking it's use now though. Anyone for a lawsuit?
Giving power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to a teenage boy - P. J. O'Rourke (thanks Jessie)

It's amazing that people can believe everything is predestined but they still look both ways when crossing the road - Stephen Hawking

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And a lot of Ibuprofen.
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby wireworm » 25 Mar 2011, 18:30

I think you need to read a little further about permethrin.

This is from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency document entitled:

Permethrin Facts
(Reregistration Eligibility Decision (RED) Fact Sheet)

One sentence reads..."the Agency classified permethrin as “Likely to be Carcinogenic to Humans” by the oral route". Shock Horror!

However, a little further on:

"Given the significance of the use of permethrin and the mitigated nature of the risks of permethrin, the Agency believes, on balance, that the benefits of permethrin outweigh the risks. "

As with all pesticides, it's a question of balancing risks and benefits and you can clearly see their position regarding this. To just state that it is a carcinogen gives people a false impression.

I use permethrin-based insecticides on a regular basis in my job. The products I use are Approved for Use by the HSE and a key document I need to know about for each product is the Material Safety Data Sheet, which states all the relevant information on things like carcinogenicity. I checked the MSDS on the permethrin-based products I use - no mention of cacinogenicity.

It's not the first time the EPA has found itself out of step with the regulatory authorities of other countries. Possibly a 'not invented here' reaction?

So I will continue to use permethrin-based products that have gone through all the extensive testing that is required here in the UK and are properly 'Approved for Use' as directed.

I won't be using Neem-based products because they haven't been tested and are not 'Approved for Use' in this country.
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby dannyson » 08 Apr 2011, 23:12

Poultry mites are not insects - so insecticides such as neem oil, ant powder have not worked for me. Poultry shield seems to have done the job for the time being - hundreds of them crawled out of the woodwork ..... #-o
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Re: Definitive help for the spring - redmite

Postby drfish » 10 Apr 2011, 08:36

Technically, they are spiders, not insects, if you want to get down to brass tacks. But I assure you, insecticides will still do the exact same job as mites still breathe the same and have very similar internal systems to common insects.

All mites are arachnids, and neem oil and insecticide will kill or destroy the life cycle of most of them.
Giving power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to a teenage boy - P. J. O'Rourke (thanks Jessie)

It's amazing that people can believe everything is predestined but they still look both ways when crossing the road - Stephen Hawking

1 Wife, 3 children, 1 Staffie Bitch (RIP Marley), 1 Chi-Chi, 1 Tuxedo Cat, 1 part Maine Coon cat, male bearded dragon, Horsefield Tortoise, 2 White Silkies, 1 Frizzle Pekin, 1 CLB, 1 Appenzeller Spitzhauben Cockerel, 1 blue laced Wyandotte, 3 Appenzeller x Wynadotte pullets, 1 Call drake, 3 khaki Campbell ducks, 4 (2 male 2 female?) Aylesbury x Campbells, a breeding colony of Dubia cockroaches.

And a lot of Ibuprofen.
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