The Poultry Keeper

Marti · Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 14 Location: England

Hi,

I just started with some vegetables. I ordered Vegetable Growing Month By Month. I've even got some tomato plants and beans and courgettes going, as well as some pots of leaf lettuce.

So, I was thinking of trying to grow some carrots and some potatoes and onions. Is it too late for that?

I'd have to dig up some ground in my pasture (next to the chickens....those greedy girls who often escape!). How deep would I have to dig?

I have tons of old manure that has composted to something resembling potting soil. Maybe I could heap that on top?

Any thoughts much appreciated!!!

Marti

Attila The Hen · Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 419 Location: Shetland

Hi Marti,

Well done on starting with the veg growing - you'll find it's very addictive (almost as bad as keeping hens!)...

It's certainly not too late to plant some carrots, although you shouldn't expect them to grow to be whoppers (then, the smaller ones are sweeter!).

Potatoes... well, a bit too late for a big crop, but any you plant now may give you some "early" potatoes later in the year.

Onions... yes, too late, I think. You might have some joy though with shallots, as they grow a bit faster - ones bought from the supermarket will root and sprout fairly fast, and you'd get some small shallots off them by the autumn.

Digging - am a bit of a fan of double-digging and burying turves upside down beneath a good layer of soil (2 spade depths down). It's hard work, but worth it in the long run. That said, for a quick hit you could strip the turves and stack them upside down nearby (to break down into nice tilth in time), and then do a quick turn over of the exposed soil with a fork.

Manure... you lucky thing! Your well-rotted manure sounds perfect - sheer gold-dust!! Your best bet is to dig it into the soil itself, so it's providing nutrients to your veggies' roots.

atb

Jon

Marti · Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 14 Location: England

Thank you so much for post, but, Jon, what on earth is a "turve"?? And what is tilth?
Marti

Attila The Hen · Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 419 Location: Shetland

Marti · Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 14 Location: England

Now I get it -- than you, Jon!

I'm on clay Sad

But the good news is that I have tons of very rotted down manure. Some is about 3-4 years old.

Am I right that courgettes would do well?

Maybe I should also try mushrooms?

Marti

Attila The Hen · Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 419 Location: Shetland

No problem, Marti. Glad to help!

Clay? Ouch. It's not ideal, but it can be improved. As I said, you need to aim for a crumbly soil. Clay does not hold much organic matter, so needs to be improved as on its own is pretty infertile stuff. Just digging it over and breaking it up's no good, as when it gets wet or compacted, it turns back into a solid mass again.

Two things will help. Your organic matter - the manure - dug in; and maybe some sharp sand to help the clay form soil rather than slabs!

Don't expect miracles overnight - getting clay into a workable vegetable patch takes time.

Courgettes should be fine (in fact, if you plant them directly into your well-rotted manure heap they will romp away - they love lots of nutrients and the heat a manure heap generates).

Mushrooms - not really a crop for the ground, to be honest! I've never had any joy with those spore-impregnated logs (shittake, oyster mushroom, lions mane etc) you can buy. However! You can get polystyrene boxes of mushroom compost that you just add water to and leave in a warm room in the house. They work jolly well, and grow lovely "normal" or chestnut mushrooms.

A final thought - given it's a bit late in the season for getting reasonable crops from this patch of newly dug ground, you might want to think about devoting this year to the hardwork of trying to improve the soil - so dig it, dig in the manure - and maybe plant a quick-growing green manure crop on top. Something like clover maybe, that does that nitrogen fixing thing I mentioned. At the end of the year, dig it into the soil once its work is done.

The other cheat would be to buy a few tons of topsoil and dig that into the clay, possibly building a raised bed (easy with a few scaffolding boards) to accomodate the extra volume of soil.

Jon

Woodburner · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject:

I'm with Jon, it's a good time to prepare for next year, without the pressure of it getting late for planting /sowing. Double digging is useful if the soil is at all compacted, I wouldn't put turves or manure lower than one spit(spade's depth) deep as most crops roots don't reach that far down.
Have a look at Bob Flowerdew's book, no-work gardening, for info on lazy beds as well as lots of other solid advice. Lazy beds or raised beds (much the same only with bits of wood for added interest Wink

) are good with clay soil.
Clay soil holds on well to nutrients, but is hard work to dig, hence my interest and venture into no dig gardening, again no work gardening is my guide and also HDRA's organic gardening. your manure will make a great mulch as long as it hasn't got herbicide/aminopyralid in it (see news) HTH Smile