The Poultry Keeper

poultry poofs · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:20 am Post subject:

Having lived with single glazing for 30 years in both new and old properties and had to put up with the awful condensation, cold and the extra noise from outside I wouldnt have anything but double glazing as a replacement in most houses.
I would have it in farmed hardwood rather than UPVC though if it HAD to be replaced.
A lot of people are conned into disposing of old wood windows due to 'extensive rot' being the usual arm twist.Basically because joiners and window fitters dont want the time consuming hassle. The truth is the wood from the 19th and early 20th century is natural wood and growth rings are much closer, the wood is as hard as iron and very resistant to rot if painted or protected properly and can be easily repaired with off the shelf compounds.
Wood used in the later part of 20th century is largely farmed rapid growth softwood timber much more open grained and rots and warps very easily often within 15 years so no better than UPVC.If you have old frames in serviceable condition keep them dont be fooled into ditching them for modern replacements unnecessarily.You can actually get double glazing panels to fit within existing wood frames or sash windows,it costs a bit but in the long run is much better all round than replacing character windows with plastic rubbish.

coco · Joined: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 319 Location: Northants

I think I would have to disagree with you over the cost of double glazed panels Rich. Last year I had to replace one panel after the kids had tried to break in, having forgotten their keys. The original suppliers wanted to replace the whole window for £450.00 - "that design is obsolete". After I had told them where they might place their complete replacement window, they agreed to supply just the double glazed panel for around £150. They were unable to position their panel in accordance with my suggestion as there was already a complete window in the way! Very Happy

I went to a local glazing supplier who made up a panel for me for less than £15.00. Guess who will get the business if we need more glazing panels?

poultry poofs · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:44 am Post subject:

You got a bargain there coco, my mate refurbished his edwardian terraced house around 1999 and converted the sash windows to sealed double glazed units keeping the original frames.The units were taken away one by one and brought back as a complete galzed unit,it cost him £600 a window but that was a lot cheaper than replacing the entire window and frame with hardwood.
I suppose if you shop around and find people prepared to do the work its possible to get a better price for the job.

stephen · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:31 am Post subject:

stephen · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:34 am Post subject:

wemfish · Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 204 Location: Wem Shropshire

I think I should mention that within my career I have worked for 14 years at a uPVC window frame extrusion company (you wouldn't believe the amount of nasty chemicals, including lead that goes into uPVC) and now as a Plumber, so at least half my working years have been connected with heating and insulation. Given the choice I personaly would never have uPVC windows (unfortunately the house I now live in had them before I moved in).
The apprenticeship for plumbing covers a lot to do with heat loss values and insulation, and its a weekly job to do some heating /insulation calculation. By far the most effective ways to insulate your house cost effectively are loft insulation that should recoup the cost within as little as 3 years and cavity wall insulation that should recoup the cost in about 5 years. Little things like draft proofing and hot water tank insulation are big money savers. After that insulated floors are worth considering but are less cost effective, and last on the list is uPVC double glazing, which as I mentioned before takes about 100 years to recoup the cost as it makes very little difference to the heat lost from the building and wont last long enough to anyway.

I have in the past bought wooden DG windows at about £140 each here. The glass is the cheap stuff at about £25 for a 1 meter square DG unit. its the frame and fitting that costs the money. the cheapest being about £100 for soft wood, about £10 more for uPVC and another £10 for hard wood. At these prices its easy to make a good decision.

kated · Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 1851 Location: norfolk

I believe Building Regulations now insist all replacement windows in the UK have double glazing (except in listed buildings). Our joiner warned us when the regulation was in the offing and we just got ours done in single glazing in time.

poultry poofs · Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:33 am Post subject:

I dont like UPVC windows primarily because of the chemicals used to produce them and the disposal problems of both the manufacturing waste and the old windows when they come to be replaced.
According to statistics between 22 and 37% of heat is lost from windows.Up to 84% of infrared heat of a room can be lost from a room depending on the emissivity of the glazing(its ability to transfer heat)The thicker the glass or the more panes and its density all play a part in this.
Double glazing also has other benefits not just in preventing heat loss through the glass.It prevents air leakage(drafts)which are significant contibutory factors in loss or waste of heat.It reduces condensation roughly by half per layer of glass due to the warm air of a room not being in contact with the same pane of glass in contact with outside cold air.It also significantly reduces the warming of a room in the summer months due to solar heat radiation and the amount of heat generated directly from light heating surfaces in the room.It also reduces general light radiation and transmission either way depending on the requirements of the house.It also reduces sound transmission.(Ask anyone living near Heathrow if they would like single glazing!)All of these factors are linked to the material the glass is made of and how it is assembled.Double glazed or triple glazed windows and wood frames do all of these jobs a lot better than a single sheet of 6mm glass.I owned a brand new flat in the city, insulated walls ceilings roof and floors but bizarrely had single glazed wood framed windows.The whole flat was plagued with horrendous condensation at every window, I literally mopped 2 to 3 pints of water off the sills and floors below them everyday and milldew on every wall despite having electric heating and extractors in the bathroom kitchen and over the cooker hob unit.I was also plagued with chest infections.Once the windows were replaced with triple glazed wood units all the problem disappeared over-night.
Double glazing bizarrely is always linked to germs and colds etc but this is more to do with how extemely badly the office or home space is ventilated.
Solid fuel and to a certain point gas and oil heating are good at keeping air circulation because the rising heat up the chimney or flu draws fresh air in to the home through the ventilation bricks.Domestic electric heating and the heating found in offices doesnt(unless its air conditioned) and is generally the form of heating that makes people feel unwell because it reduces air humidity to a point the body dislikes and doesnt draw fresh air from outside so contibutes to people breathing stale and in some cases germ laden air just as in airliners.Its not the fault of the DG windows that makes people ill its inadequate ventilation.Single glazing by its nature allows damp and condensation to form more readily and generally promotes the conditons necessary for mould spores to form which are a contibutory factor to respiratory problems and asthma. Having had new and old houses with both single and double or triple glazing I know what I would prefer.

Duckie · Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 201

I wouldn't replace a single glazed window just because a salesman told me I should, which used to case much consternation when people phoned up with deals in my previous house, but the windows here need replacing and they'll be double glazed when they are done - its not a matter of being cold, but one of energy efficiency - double glazing is considerably more energy efficient if you choose the right windows.

mojo · Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject:

a french pal says there iwas a spray on substance which reflects heat for use on double glazed windows( a bit like solar glass i think) any one know more please as i cant find anyone who knows about it

bronskibeat · Joined: 09 Sep 2007 Posts: 1617 Location: Clawddnewydd

Apparently, according to our Listings Officer, all listed houses with UPVc windows will have to remove them shortly and replace with hardwood frames Dont you just love it when bureaucracy works the right way!! Laughing

CP · Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:10 am Post subject:

Still haven't received my brochure from Ice Energy, so have requested another. Wink

mojo · Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject:

any luck anyone with my spray query

wemfish · Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 204 Location: Wem Shropshire