The Poultry Keeper The Independent Forum for Poultry Keepers    FAQ   Search     Register   Log in  Anyone know much about Effective Microorganisms/Bokashi/EM Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6          The Poultry Keeper Forum Index -> General & Misc Author Message Bhindi Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 1220 Location: Rugby, Warwickshire Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: stephen wrote: We're using some of the first batch to try and brew a second batch, like you do with yoghurt. If that works (the "food" for the brew is black molasses) then for about a £30 investment you can have a limitless supply.! Stephen, did this work. Is the resulting brew EM-1. ? Also did you use the 10ml to 1 litre ratio on the cat & chook water? Thanks. Back to top stephen Site Admin Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 4765 Location: Billinge, Skåne, Sweden. Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Yes it worked, and worked well for many batches too. As for the ratio, yup that's what we use. Back to top em-chicken Joined: 04 Jan 2008 Posts: 18 Location: Lancashire Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:36 pm    Post subject: Bhindi, A very important correction here please - if you try and make a second batch of activated EM from a previous fermentation, the second brew will NOT be the same as the first. The reason being that although it may look similar, the microbe mixture will not be the same as the original and the effectivity of resultant fermentation will be reduced. You should only make activated EM from the mother culture (EM-1). EM-1 is extremely cost effective - 1 Litre of EM-1 produces 20 litres of activated EM, which when diluted 100:1 with water, for most users will cost you about £0.12/litre - Likewise, if you want to make bokashi, you DON'T use activated EM. The balance of the different microbes in EM-1 is vitally important (there are around 80), all of which are important in the activation process and some of which die off during the process. Here's a guide to dilution ratios of EM:water 10:1 or less as a disinfectant 50/100:1 for cleaning/odour control 100:1 for adding to chucks water (10ml/litre) In the garden for soil improvement - 1 Litre/100 sq M Hope this is helpful Back to top Bhindi Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 1220 Location: Rugby, Warwickshire Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:22 am    Post subject: Thank you both for your replies. Back to top Bhindi Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 1220 Location: Rugby, Warwickshire Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Well I've just given my hens their first bowl of EM and they're going non stop at it... Within about 20' There is a drinker with ACV, a bowl of water with life-guard, and then the pond to drink out off, normally they take a while to get the taste of something, but this bowl of EM is going down very quickly.! I'm going to have to pluck up the courage to taste it myself, though somehow I don't think its going to appeal as much to me! Back to top stephen Site Admin Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 4765 Location: Billinge, Skåne, Sweden. Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:15 am    Post subject: em-chicken wrote: A very important correction here please - if you try and make a second batch of activated EM from a previous fermentation, the second brew will NOT be the same as the first. Other people, and many of the proponents and retailers of Bokashi and EM disagree completely, including some very highly respected ones. It is a microbial culture. It grows. It's basic biology. If it didn't, it couldn't colonise animal guts, drains, soil etc. Quote: Likewise, if you want to make bokashi, you DON'T use activated EM. See above. Most people who back and sell EM and bokashi bran will tell you that it is far more cost efficient and effective to buy the liquids and make your own bran, and to make bran from your brewed liquids. My experience of it backs those experts. Back to top Woodburner Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 478 Location: Deepest Essex, well, a village... Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:21 pm    Post subject: em-chicken wrote: Likewise, if you want to make bokashi, you DON'T use activated EM. Ok, now that got me confused. What do I use? And while I'm here, where can I get a small bottle, just enough for one or at most two bags of bran? Or does it keep? I thought I read that it doesn't though I'm not going to get into brewing the stuff, as I don't have enough use for it, but if it's anything like edible yoghourt it is possible to get the balance of microbes wrong. Not 100% sure what does it, probably temperature, but you can tell because it's tart rather than creamy tasting. Not sure how you'd tell with EM, though, I'm sure I don't want to taste it. Back to top duckmomma Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Posts: 21 Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:21 am    Post subject: Hi I am new to the forum and could not resist joining this discussion I have been feeding our houseduck Bokashi bran and garlic powder on her food for several weeks now, I have found both have certainly helped make her poo more tolerable I think any one who keeps ducks will agree duck poo stinks :-& So I started adding Garlic powder to her food, it made her a lot less smelly, although occasionally I add a little too much and she smells like a chicken kiev Then I heard about Bokashi bran and added that as well, Her poo is firmer most of the time when she is having the Bokashi but I still sometimes get those nasty runny smelly brown ones. This is a very interesting thread, and when or if ever I can work out how, I will have a go at making my own Bokashi to save money. Back to top em-chicken Joined: 04 Jan 2008 Posts: 18 Location: Lancashire Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:20 am    Post subject: Sorry to keep going on about this, but it is important. When Woodburner said Quote: I'm not going to get into brewing the stuff, as I don't have enough use for it, but if it's anything like edible yoghourt it is possible to get the balance of microbes wrong. Not 100% sure what does it, probably temperature, but you can tell because it's tart rather than creamy tasting. Not sure how you'd tell with EM, though, I'm sure I don't want to taste it. you were on the right track! I therefore asked Agrtion, who are probably the largest producer of EM in Europe for their opinion on the subject - they are experts on EM, and all EM sold in the UK is produced by them. Their response was: Quote: If you look at the composition of EM you will notice that there are several strains of different kinds of microbes in the mixture. Some study in microbiology will teach you that each type of microbe has a different duplication speed. Even if the genus is the same, you find that every species within that genus will differ in duplication speed. In other words, if we take the different types of Lactobaciilus in EM and mix them with molasses and water, then one species will duplicate faster then the other. If you ferment them the first time, you will have for example 20% Lactobacillus Caseï. 30% Lactobaciilus Plantarum and 50% Lactobacillus Lactum. If you ferment this again, then this balance will be the starting position for these microbes. After the 2nd fermentation this will end up to 5% L.Caseï, 25% L.Plantarum and 70% L.Lactum. After the 3rd fermentation you can expect almost only L.Lactum. For the yeast it is almost the same. Phototrophic microbes (an important constituent of EM) do almost not multiply themselves in the first fermentation. Actinomycetes do multiply,but very slowly in a liquid. For some applications you can make a second fermentation, for example if you only need the Yeast and the Lactobacillus. But in such a case you should be aware that although the diversity is still the same the quantities of the diversity has been significant changed. If you go up to the third fermentation, the EM will be almost only Lactobacillus and Yeast and then from both Genus only one or two types will be very dominant. So, as you can see if you keep fermenting EM, the product you end up with is not 'real' EM and will therefore not have the same effects. I hope this clarifies things and ends the confusion. Back to top vanessa Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 860 Location: Correze Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:26 pm    Post subject: Being a tiny tad cynical I can't help wondering if the "manufacturers" say this to protect their own little empire they're creating?! Of course, "Joe public" have no way of testing their "brew" to know for certain what mix of microbes they have. Back to top CP Moderator Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 13153 Location: Hampshire Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: Well mine arrived today with hardly anything by the way of instructions, only saying what a normal garden compost bin will do. Nothing about the 'juice' that should come out of the tap. Just 'put everything in, cover with the bran & after 2 weeks put on the garden or in the compost heap'! What should I do first? Put kitchen peelings in & sprinkle the bran over? How deep a layer can it be? HELP! Back to top stephen Site Admin Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 4765 Location: Billinge, Skåne, Sweden. Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:29 am    Post subject: We have one of those small bins from ikea for collecting food waste. I think they're around 5 litres in size. We put a sprinkling of bran on for every one of those. 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