The Poultry Keeper

LisaLou · Joined: 10 Sep 2005 Posts: 109 Location: Herts

Hi all,

I'm probably worrying about nothing but I thought it was better to ask now than to have a potential problem later.

As you know I got my girls on Saturday. Rachel (the RIR x LS) has a bit of a funny eye. She keeps it closed all the time but opens it easily when she hears a noise or just when she wants to have a look at something. It's not red or sticky and when she opens it, it's clear and bright.

Her beak is also different from the other two. the lower part sticks out further than the upper part and she gets food stuck in it all the time. The other two push their beaks along the ground to get off anything that gets stuck, but Rachel just leaves it there. She's not eating much at all either.

The thing is, she's been quite subdued since Saturday. Initially I thought she was just unsettled but the other two have seemed to have settled in really nicely, especially Pheobe who is a right little madam!

The other two are scratching around and wandering about the place. They are eating their pellets and all the other bits and bobs they scratch off the floor of the run. Rachel on the other hand hardly moves about at all. She stands by the water bowl and puts her head on her chest and just looks miserable.

When I go into the run to re-fill the water or look for eggs, the other two make a right fuss and walk away from me. Rachel just stands there and looks at me. She is very easily caught and doesn't mind being picked up.

I really don't know if she's just a bit more chilled than the other two or there's something up with her.

As I say, I'm probably worried about nothing but do those symptoms sound like anything more to anyone?

All ideas gratefully received, even if you are just telling me to shush and let them get on with it!

LL xx

Deb_Moderator · Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 3661

Ummm, you have a right to be worried. I noticed her beak when you posted the pics in your gallery. If you are confident enough to do it yourself, I would trim her lower beak...or take her to the vet to have this done.

They eye part, I have also discussed with a few members of the forum on msn. We could not come up with a reason for this behavior, except that maybe she might have received a scratch on her eye at one point and is just favoring it.

Pay very close attention to her weight...is she getting thinner?

Usually chickens will not let you know that they are ill until it is late in the game. You have to be keen to the signs and act on them as soon as you see them. I am not saying that she may be very ill, but I would feel more comfortable if you had her checked out by a vet or even just returned and exchanged for a new hen from where you got her.

LisaLou · Joined: 10 Sep 2005 Posts: 109 Location: Herts

How do I trim her beak?

I'm not sure that I would be able to exchange her, the 'small print' on the back of the receipt states that they won't accept any livestock back once it's left their premises although I suppose I still have consumer rights even though Rachel is a hen rather than a pair of shoes!

If you don't mind me asking, what specifically makes you think she may be ill? is it the standing and putting her head on her chest thing or the beak thing?

should I be isolating her from the other two?

Deb_Moderator · Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 3661

Yes, the head on the chest is a sign of being weak. Her not being inquisitive like the other two is also a sign.

I have never trimmed a beak. They say to file it down to the proper length. I am sure someone will be along to help you with that part. Maybe isolate her. Get her some extra vitamin/electrolyte supplement for her water. Get her on a high protien diet of mash, yogurt, canned veggies, etc.

Also check for mites, and maybe think about worming.

Right now it is just grasping at straws, as there is no concrete symptoms pointing to anything in particular.

Sorry.

LisaLou · Joined: 10 Sep 2005 Posts: 109 Location: Herts

No no, don't apologies, I didn't expect concrete answers, just a point in the right direction which I feel like I've got. Thank you.

I've just been watching them from the window, Rachel is eating, well, pecking about at least. I can't see whether she's actually getting anything down from the window but if I go down to the run she stops what she's doing and just puts her head down.

My gut reaction when I first got her was that she was a bit 'backwards'. I know that sounds mad, but she just doesn't seem to be the full compliment. An egg short of a dozen you might say!

She's been the slowest to pick things up, for example, she just couldn't seem to work out where her house was even when the other two could.

If I move the water, she seems confused about where it is and stands looking at the spot where it use to be.

She doesn't run away when someone goes into the run, but she doesn't seem bothered that we're in there either. Pheobe doesn't mind us being in there either but she walks off if you get too close.

She's always the last out of the house in the morning although she's moving around inside, almost as if she can't quite work out where the other two have gone.

Couple that with the head on her chest thing and her dodgy eye, I'm hoping that might be it rather than her being ill.

I think what I will do is wait until tomorrow, and then phone the place I got her and see if I can exchange her. (I feel awful saying that, what will happen to her if I take her back?)

Thanks again for your fast response, I bet you're all rolling your eyes and thinking 'silly newbie'!

Deb_Moderator · Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 3661

Lisa · Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject:

Oh it can be so hard, its always difficult to know what to think when they start to get ill. If you pick up things on when they first start you only have the first symptoms to go on. What you don't know is if it is the beginning of something.... or nothing Confused

To add a note of hopeful optimism with the eye - I can remember a couple of people on another forum saying that had brought home chickens that had a problem with an eye. Both thought that they might have got a little eye injury on the journey home (eg it being a bit wobbly for chickens put together in a cardboard box and they might have got banged or pecked). Both chickens did make a full recovery within a few a week or so, so its not necessarily the start of something bad.

From the rest of the symptoms though (not eating much, not moving much, neck withdrawn etc) I agree with Deb and think Rachel must feeling somewhat unwell. At least part of that could be due to the move to a new home - the stress can make them more vunerable to any bugs they might otherwise shake off...

Having looked at the picture in the gallery I'm sure the beak doesn't help too - if she can't eat properly and hasn't been getting enough nutrition she might have got rather run down too. I have heard of people using dog nail clippers, wire cutters, or nail clippers to cleanly trip beaks. But you have to be careful - I've not done it myself but, IIRC from what I've read, if you cut too much off you might hit nerves or blood vessels Shocked

Maybe your local vet could help out here and show you what to do? I know our local one will trim a dog's claws and show you how, if you need to know.

Regards the other symptoms, I would do as Deb suggested to make doubley sure that she has everything she might need to help support her immune system to recover on her own. So thats good tempting and healthy food, water (maybe with added vitamins and minerals and/or with added ACV and garlic), and as stress free a time as you can give her with lots of peace and quiet and TLC. And watch her very, very closely for any changes in her symptoms.

Isolating her might be of benefit - although if what she has is catching, chances are the other chooks have caught it already. To some extent it depends on the chicken. Some get more stressed by isolation (one of my first ones was like that) and then some get more rest with being away from the others... Though one of the benefits of isolating a sick chicken, if you have that option, is that you can tell exactly how much they are eating and drinking and this might give you a good indication of how ill they feel.

Have you contacted the breeder you got her from for any advice? They might be helpful... or not. You do have consumer rights with chickens too, but it can get a bit more complicated as we all tend to get a bit more attached to a new chicken that we do to a new pair of shoes.

A trip to the vets is always an option, but that also depends on how good a vet you have access to. Some are great and some seem to know less about chooks than most chicken keepers have already learnt from a few good books Sad

Wishing you all the best with her - do keep us posted on how you both get on.

Lisa

thewinkingtiger · Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 936 Location: East Yorkshire, UK

Hi Lisa

So sorry to hear you are having concerns about Rachel, I do hope all turns out for the best for you and her.

I took my poorly girl to the vet and he trimmed her beak for me - it cost £3.00 so it's not extortionate but if I were to do it again I would get out a good nail file and do it myself.

I felt similarly to you about my girl - ie: thought she was just a bit more placid and laid back than the others. But in my case it was because she was ill. Are her droppings normal???

I would follow the advice of those that know!! And either take her back or get her to the vet. (Maybe worth ringing round the ones in your area to see if any actually have experience first - could save you a small fortune.)

Whatever you decide - I wish you all the best and would like an update when you get chance.

Debs

LisaLou · Joined: 10 Sep 2005 Posts: 109 Location: Herts

Thank you both for taking the time to reply in such a helpful and informative way.

Poor Rachel took herself off for an early night and was tucked up in the coop before it was even slightly dark.

I'll see how she is tomorrow morning and make a decision on what to do then. I will be phoning the breeder anyway for advice and I will give my local vet a call to see if she can show me how to trim her beak. As we live in a very rural area with lots of people owning livestock, I am hoping she'll have experience with chicks. She's very good with my two dogs at any rate!

I do remember the breeder saying that as Rachel is a RIR x LS and therefore expected to be bought by people requiring a lot of eggs, she'd been vaccinated against 'everything' where the other two hadn't so I'm hoping that it's just stress that's making her behave in this way.

I'll keep you all updated on how she's doing. Thanks again for taking the time to let me have your opinions. If anyone ever wants to know anything at all about dogs, cats or 10 year old boys who want to be pop star motorbike riders, please ask away!

Kiss of love

LisaLou · Joined: 10 Sep 2005 Posts: 109 Location: Herts

Thanks Debs2, it's really nice to have such a supportive place to come and chat about this sort of thing.

I haven't noticed her droppings but I will make sure I have a good look tomorrow. There doesn't seem to be anything suspect in the run or coop though so I assume that they are normal since I can't distinguish between the droppings that are there.

I'm starting to feel more and more that she is poorly... it's just deciding what to do next that's the tough bit Confused

I'll let you all know what happens tomorrow.

Many thanks again.

LL xx

thewinkingtiger · Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 936 Location: East Yorkshire, UK

You are very welcome - and you're right it is so supportive.
I will eternally grateful for all the help and sympathy I received with my poorly girl.
It is a brilliant place because no one makes you feel 'daft'!!!

One of the things I have learned through my 'dramas' with my poorly ones is - act as fast as you can. So whatever you are planning to do - do it tomorrow! It could be the saving of your girl.

Good luck - and know we are all here for you.

Debs

sasha.p · Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 502 Location: gwent

hope Rachel is OK poor thing i would definitely take a trip to the vets and get the beak seen too and the eye may just be lazy due to feeling weak?the vet may give you a feed to feed her with till she picks back up i know from other birds as I'm a new chicken owner but have saved loads of wild birds they are great at masking illness and from your description it sounds like she has been bad for a while do hope she gets better.xx Smile

LisaLou · Joined: 10 Sep 2005 Posts: 109 Location: Herts

No real change in poor Rachel this morning. She was quite perky first thing, about 7:30 when I opened the house. She wandered out and had a bit of a peck and a scratch and ate a few pellets (she was actually eating from what I can tell) but she's still much more subdued than the other two.

I chucked a handful of corn in about 20 minutes ago and the other two ran to it and gobbled it down quick smart. Rachel didn't even make an effort and as far as i could see, she didn't get even one grain. Sad

I saw my neighbour this morning and she told me that Rachel had spent the majority of yesterday sitting in the house. It was a lovely sunny day too so I can't think that she was sheltering from the rain or anything.

I'm just about to phone the vet and the place I bought them from. If our vet is experienced with chickens I'll take her there to get her beak seen to, otherwise, I'm afraid she'll be going back to the place I bought them from. Sad

I do feel bad, but being a first time chicken owner, full-time mum and working full-time too I'm not sure Rachel is being the best introduction to chicken keeping!

If I had more time and experience I'd be very confident in keeping her and nursing her back to health but I'm not and I just feel that it's better to admit my failings and give her to people who have a much better chance of getting her better than I do. I'd hate to think I'm causing her any suffering by my ignorance.

I feel like I'm totally copping out here Sad

CP · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:32 am Post subject:

Sorry to hear about Rachel, but it may be for the best that you return her to where you got her from. They should be able to deal with her health problems.

Having said that, I think it's pretty bad they even sold her to you as her beak must have been like that when you got her. It's something they should have spotted & dealt with themselves.

Where did you get her from? Are they an established breeders? You may not want to post their name on an open forum, so you can PM me if you like (or not, if you don't like! Embarassed

)

It sounds like your other 2 hens are fine, so don't feel too bad about Rachel. Smile

NannyP · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:36 am Post subject:

You're not copping out. It's hard when it's your first time, and when you have other priorities such as children and a job.
I think that you should talk to the place where you bought her and if they are good, they will replace her with a healthy bird.

I had to take one of mine back early on, I too felt that it was down to my poor care, whereas in fact it was that there was something wrong with her. Now I've had my birds for 18 months, I can deal with them when they become ill with much more confidence and the support of the guys on here. It takes time and there is no need to give yourself a hard time.

The forum is here to provide support and advice, and believe me, we all love giving it, which is why we spend far too many hours on here Wink

I think that most of Rachel's problems are down to her beak. I really think she is having trouble eating and therefore is becoming weaker. The eye is a seperate problem I suspect, but if she is struggling to eat and drink, she'll just feel worn out.
If you are unable to contact the seller today, please make sure she get's seen by a vet and her beak is trimmed.

Keep coming back and getting the support you need, we're all here Very Happy