The Poultry Keeper

casatinto · Last edited by casatinto on Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hi everyone,
One of my warrens was limping this morning and when i investigated, the pad on the underneath of her foot is very swollen and hard. Compared to the other one it is twice the size. Can anyone advise me what it could be and any possible treatment?
My other warren (Hettie) who had the head shaking problem (post on 8th Oct) has died in the night. She never really got better and deteriated over the last week. Yesterday she went completely off her legs and was found near the run on her side with her legs sticking up. I hadn't the heart (or the nerve) to cull her as i had never done it before so put her in her warm box with straw and awaited the inevitable. OH had the job this morning of burying her in the garden. Crying or Very sad

She will be sadly missed and have no idea what killed her. Started with her being puffed up and shaking her head. Very listless and walking slowly but still eating, drinking and free-ranging with the others. Bless her. She was so cheeky and it's so sad when they just fade away for no good reason. I think i would rather know what was wrong with them, but the vet here doesn't know anything about chickens and doesn't know anyone who does. It's useless really as she perhaps could have been saved. Bit sad and would like to know what's wrong with Madge's foot now as i don't want to lose another one. Thanks.

Henwife · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 3540 Location: Monmouthshire

A good standby for a swollen foot is 'soak in hot water' - which also means you can give the underside a good scrub and see if anything comes to light. Ask your vet how he would treat that soft bit of a horse's hoof (?frog) if it was hot & swollen, and treat the hen the same way. I'd use a kaolin poultice which is possibly old fashioned, but effective.

casatinto · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject:

Hi Henwife,
Thanks for your reply. I have tried the hot foot soak and nothing seems to be amiss despite giving it a good rubbing. Kaolin poltice? Is that something i can make up myself or do you have to buy it? If so, in Spain... Impossible. I know it's a paste to put on boils but apart from that............. It's very bulbous underneath and she's hobbling and holding it up so it must be hurting her. I thought she may have a stone, thorn or something similar in but no evidence of this. I put some TCP in the water for good measure and sprayed it. I will see what it's like tomorrow. Any other suggestions would be much appreciated.

Henwife · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 3540 Location: Monmouthshire

Yes, that's the kaolin I mean - and it's used for horses too. Looks like grey mud and smells of peppermint. Possibly a pharmacy would have a small pot - mine comes from the horsey department of the local agri store.

stamina · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject:

Sounds like a condition known as bumble-foot.
Very difficult to treat, but I would reduce the hight of the perch to make life easier for her.
The last thing you must do is lance the swelling. too many sinews. regards Stamina

casatinto · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject:

Hi Stamina,
Thanks for your reply. She still has it and seems to be very painful to walk on. I have started to soak it for about 5 minutes every night in hand hot water with TCP in (don't laugh!) in case of infection. There is no sign of injury or anything in it. It is nearly twice the size and swollen. I then rub Savlon cream all over the foot and between the toes which she seems to enjoy. I know what it's like when your feet hurt and how good a hot foot soak is.
Afterwards she walks better because it's softened the pad and goes straight to bed so not getting muck stuck to it. She perches low down anyway (about knee height) but where the 2 perches cross (they are the same height), she sleeps as she can balance better. I hope i can clear this up as no vets here bothers about chickens and they tell me they don't know anyone who knows anything either despite living in a very rural area and all Spanish rural properties have chickens. Useless...!
Is there any treatment for bumble-foot, however difficult, i will do it.

Big D · Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 361 Location: Cumbria

Bumblefoot is caused by an injury to the foot. Large (heavy) birds are more susceptible to bumblefoot. Basically it is an infection of the foot caused by staph bacteria which is present in all chicken surroundings . The staph enters the foot when the skin is broken. That can happen when they jump down from high places, sit on perches that are not smooth enough, or any irritation to their feet if they are too heavy. Raptors (Eagles, hawks, etc...) that are in captivity for rehabilition also get bumblefoot if they perch on the same place continuously.

The crusty "plug' on the bottom of their foot pad needs to be picked off. Soak the foot to clean it. Warm water with dishwashing liquid, epsom salts,or whatever you are comfortable with. I use tea made from the HORSETAIL plant. COMFREY tea also works. Sometimes I combine the two herbs. Comfrey has properties that miraculously can clear up a staph infections. You can purchase these "herbs" from any natural foods co-op or health/ homeopathic store. Present Moment on Grand Avenue South in Minneapolis carries these herbs as well as Merz Apothecary in Chicago (Metro area). Both will send through the mail. Merz Apothecary also has a great Comfrey salve that no household should be without. You can also use this salve to help cure the bumblefoot on your chickens feet.
After soaking the foot for 10-15 minutes. Dry it off. If you look in the hole you will see hard yellowish cheesy stuff. This is hardened pus. My vet is really cool. He grew up on a poultry farm and was a faculty member in Veterinary medicine at the University of Minnesota. He gave me this stuff called "Synotic (with Batril)" ( I think it's used on dogs). The Raptor Clinic at The U of M uses it on their raptors. Put a drop of this into the open hole. You can then also put a little comfrey salve in after that. Dress the foot carefully with gauze and then Vet wrap. Farm stores carry vet wrap. It's like temporary ace bandage that sticks to itself. Comes in many bright colors and is used alot for wrapping the ankles of horses. Wrap snug but not too tight. Leave the dressing on for a day or two. Check the chicken to make sure the toes are not swollen or pale (wrapped too tight and cutting off circulation). Then if possible, confine that chicken to a pen without perches and bedding of shavings at least 6-8 inches deep to help cushion the healing foot. Keep changing the dressing until the foot shows improvement, then leave unwrapped and continue putting on Synotic 1 drop 2xday per foot until there is no sign of infection.It is safe to eat the eggs from chickens getting this treatment.
If bumblefoot is left untreated the infection becomes chronic and scar tissue will form and disfigure the foot and make it painful to walk for the bird. Sometimes if the case is too severe a vet will perform surgery on the foot.
I hope this has helped. It has worked for me. Synotic, Horsetail and Comfrey are wonder cures!

Nicked this from the web. Hope it helps.

casatinto · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject:

Thanks Big D,
I have some comfrey plants arriving from the UK tomorrow so how do you make the salve. I will make it with some of the leaves if possible.

Henwife · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 3540 Location: Monmouthshire

Do keep us up to date with progress. The only time I have taken bumble foot to the vet (a breeding cock, so half the flock), she drew off a lot of yuk with a hollow needle, gave antibiotics and pain killers, and fought for him, but eventually admitted that the cost, with no guarantee of cure, was outweighing the value of the bird. The hen I used kaolin on recovered, but that could have luck, and something other than bumblefoot.

casatinto

Hi everyone,
Thought i would update you on Madge's progress re: Bumblefoot.
Over the last 2 weeks she didn't seem too bad and to be honest i wasn't really relishing the thought of performing minor surgery on her foot so kept putting it off. Anyway this morning she was walking pretty badly, worse than ever before, so i felt that i had to do something.
I soaked the foot in hand-hot water with TCP for about 10 minutes to soften the black plug. Then i shouted my OH to hold her on her side whilst i carefully picked at it with tweezers that had been soaking in the water too. After a few minutes i'm afraid it did bleed a little but i must have loosened it as loads of cream coloured pus oozed out (hope you're not eating). I pulled gently and the biggest hardest lump came out leaving a nice clean hole in the bottom of her foot. It's now the same size as the other one.
We could hardly believe all that was in the foot. I cut it off with a new razor blade, level with the foot and put some comfrey paste in the hole (which i made with some of the leaves off the plants that i had ordered from the UK) and a drop of olive oil so that it stuck together, put a little square of gauze and a square of foam on (that you have for corns) and bandaged it up between the toes and around the foot.
She is now in a cage in the hen house with deep straw to cushion the foot.
As soon as she went in the cage, she started to eat her food and looks perky. She was so good and kept still the whole time. I don't think it hurt her as she didn't make a sound or try move at all. I feel very proud of what we did and hope that after i have changed the dressing every day for a few days, soaking the foot in TCP solution before replacing the dressing, she is able to go out with the others and we have cured it. I have no way of knowing if she is feeling any pain and wouldn't know what pain killer to give her anyway. Fingers crossed we have helped this little hen to have a much more comfortable life as she's only about 6 months old and one of my best layers.
Thanks everyone for your help and advice as i would never have known what to do or what it was in the first place if it hadn't been for your knowledge and help. I'm sure Madge would thank you all too if she could.
I thought i would take these photos so that if anyone else has this problem, they can identify it and treat it too.
The first photo is what her foot was like before we operated.

CP · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject:

Oh, yuk! That's looks really awful! Shocked

I bet she was glad when that popped out; the release of pressure must have been a great relief. Very Happy

Henwife · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 3540 Location: Monmouthshire

Be sure she's completely healed before she goes back on the ground. Birds have a poor blood supply to their feet which is part of the reason infected feet are difficult to deal with. You've done a good job there.

stamina · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject:

Well done casatinto.
You have done a great job with your bird and given us all a lesson in good animal husbandry. You asked for advice and acted upon it in a sensible manner.
I'm sure we all wish that Mage makes a full recovery.
Please keep us posted.
Regards
Stamina.

Pekinout · Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 1219 Location: Cornwall

Well done on getting that abcess cleared. I'd spray the hole with antseptic spray and then some 'new skin'. Not sure if you can get it over there, but you can use Bostik glue, it's basically the same thing. Forms a clear skin over the wound to stop anything getting in and infecting it even more. It's also water proof so stays in place for quite a while.

casatinto · Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject:

Hi everyone,
Thanks for all your supportive replies. I have re-dressed it again tonight and the comfrey paste had stuck to the wound like glue so maybe that wasn't a very good idea (despite being told it was when i researched it on the internet) as i had to soak the foot again to get it all off. Maybe i didn't make the paste properly or something but i have scrapped that idea. Unfortunately it bled a little again so i was a bit annoyed as it was healing nicely. I put some antiseptic crean (hadn't got any spray) and some 'new skin' (which luckily i had got) and bandaged it up again. She seems very lively and happy but didn't like being left in the cage when i let the others out to free-range and flapped a lot. Eating well again tonight after foot was re-dressed so don't think she's in any pain. I will leave this dressing on a couple of days though to give it chance to heal a bit more in case i upset it again. I will update you of her progress in a week or so.